Episode 1: The Meaning of Courage

Jorge Ramos reads the story of Cristian Solano-Córdova
Musical Guest Yo-Yo Ma responds

Jorge Gilberto Ramos Ávalos is a Mexican-born American journalist and author. Regarded as the best-known Spanish-language news anchor in the United States of America, he has been referred to as "The Walter Cronkite of Latin America". He reads Cristian Solano-Córdova’s story of strategizing to protect his eight-year-old sister, who is an American citizen, in the event her mother gets deported.

Guests

Jorge Ramos

Jorge Ramos is a Mexican-born American journalist and author. Regarded as the best-known Spanish-language news anchor in the United States of America, he has been referred to as "The Walter Cronkite of Latin America". Currently based in Miami, Florida, he anchors the Univision news television program Noticiero Univision, the Univision Sunday-morning political news program Al Punto, and the Fusion TV English-language program America with Jorge Ramos. He has covered five wars, and events ranging from the fall of the Berlin Wall to the War in Afghanistan.

Yo-Yo Ma

Yo-Yo Ma: One of the best-known classical cellists of the recording era, whose crossover releases have spanned the world, bluegrass, and soundtrack charts. With partners from around the world and across disciplines, Yo-Yo creates programs that stretch the boundaries of genre and tradition to explore music-making as a means not only to share and express meaning, but also as a model for the cultural collaboration he considers essential to a strong society. He has received numerous awards, including the Polar Music Prize (2012), the Vilcek Prize in Contemporary Music (2013), and the J. Paul Getty Medal Award (2016), and 18 Grammy Awards!

Cristian Solano-Córdova

Cristian Solano-Córdova​ is the ​Communications Director ​with the ​National Partnership for New Americans.​ Cristian is a Denver native, born in Chihuahua, Mexico. He began working for the immigrant community in 2015 when he ran and won an election to become a ​Student Body President​ at ​MSU Denver​. Cristian is a proud DACA recipient and hopes to continue his education and one day work in health policy advocacy.

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Full Episode Transcript

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Kirsten (00:09): From Motus Theater, welcome to the Shoebox Stories podcast, where we invite you to stand in someone else's shoes. I'm Motus' artistic director, Kirsten Wilson.

Kirsten (00:29): For our first podcast series, UndocuAmerica, Motus asks a prominent American to stand in the shoes of an undocumented person, by reading aloud their story, saying their words, and holding, for a moment, the weight that they carry. By reading the story handed to them in the studio, the reader is not saying they agree with everything written, they are simply agreeing to suspend judgment and feel the impact as they word-by-word experience the world through another's eyes.

Kirsten (01:10): Our guest reader in this first episode is Univision's esteemed news anchor, Jorge Ramos. He is regarded as the best-known Spanish language news anchor in the United States, and was included on Time magazine's list of the world's 100 must influential people.

Jorge (01:26): What surprised me is how I, somehow, just for a few seconds, I was you.

Kirsten (01:31): He will be reading the story of Cristian Solano-Cordova, who was carried by his mother across the southern border from Mexico when he was just three years old. Cristian's autobiographical story is about strategizing to protect his eight year old sister, who is an American citizen, in the event their mother gets deported.

Kirsten (01:50): After the reading and reflection, we have a musical response from the great Yo-Yo Ma, who chose a song that he felt captured some of the tenderness, courage, and love in Cristian's story. And then he and pianist Kathryn Stott went into the studio to record it, just for this episode.

Kirsten (02:07): And, now, Cristian, are you ready to have Jorge Ramos read your story?

Cristian (02:11): Yeah.

Jorge (02:12): With an accent. I promise to read it with an-

Jorge (02:14): ... with an accent.

Cristian (02:15): Yeah, that's the best way-

Jorge (02:17): When I was my sister's age, 11 years old this year, I didn't have many worries. It's funny, because my baby sister, [Denaiyu 00:02:26], is an American citizen, so it should be easier for her, but it's not. It's not right now, because the people she loves most, my mom, my other sister, [Bayba 00:02:37], and I, we're all undocumented. When we are threatened, she is threatened. My baby sister is forced to bear the burden of attacks on immigrants under the current administration.

Jorge (02:51): I remember election night 2016. My mom and I were in complete shock, trying to absorb what had just happened to the country, trying to strategize about how to handle certain possibilities. I remember frantically Googling, what happens to a U.S. citizen child if an undocumented parent is deported?

Jorge (03:12): My dad died young, so I needed to assure myself that if my mom was deported, I could get custody of Denaiyu, who, at the time, was only eight. But then, of course, what would happen if Bayba and I were both deported?

Jorge (03:30): My mom and I totally lost track of time during our election night panic. So, when hours later I came downstairs, I was surprised to find my sister, Denaiyu, wide awake, sitting in a corner by herself crying, red-faced, with puffy eyes. With my dad gone, I've always had to be the big brother, or, rather, father figure, since my mom was always working. I would help Denaiyu with her homework, read each other bedtime stories, play games. I answered those unanswerable, kind of, kid questions, and comfort her when she's scared.

Jorge (04:09): But I'm not used to trying to comfort her when, in reality, I needed so much comforting myself. I remember tilting her chin, listening with streams of tears towards me, looking into those deep brown eyes and trying my best to give her soothing answers to her questions and just repeating, "Don't cry baby, don't cry. It's going to be okay, I promise. It's going to be okay.

Jorge (04:39): Listen, why would you be deported? Do you even know what that word means? Listen to me, you are an American citizen, you will never be deported. You're right, I'm not a citizen, but I've got DACA, they can't deport me. I know mom doesn't, but mom is going to be okay. She has lived here for decades, she's not going anywhere.

Jorge (05:08): Baby don't cry, please. I promise, whatever happens we'll be together always. I'll be there to put Band-aids on your scraped knees. I'll be there to help you with your school projects. Yes, we're going to finish reading Harry Potter together, and I'll be by your side when you need help applying for college. I'll be there for you when you fall in love for your first time, when your heart is broken. I'll walk you down the aisle one day. And, it really doesn't matter where we'll be, as long as we're together. And, yes, of course, the puppy is coming with us if we go. [Lulu 00:05:45] is part of this family too, I'll have you know. Yeah, that's the dimply smile I like to see. It's going to be okay."

Jorge (05:57): At least that's what I told her. I did my best to offer her what I wanted to hear, what I wanted to believe for both her and our entire family. Because how do you talk to a child about being taken away from their parents or siblings without terrorizing them and stripping them of their innocence? With each day of this administration, the increased deportations of parents like my mom, the attempts to end the DACA program that protects me and my sister Bayba, that willingness to end rules that limit how long children can be detained. Even threats to strip children, like Denaiyu, of their citizenship.

Jorge (06:34): With all the mounting threat against our family, it feels increasingly cruel to offer my little sister a fairytale, when she might need great strength to overcome great threats. So, tonight, I offer her and you another story. This story won't kiss it and make it all better, but I'm hoping it will help us stay strong, regardless of the challenges that we might face.

Jorge (07:03): I was three years old, and my sister Bayba was just one when we crossed the border with my mom. We walked together with a group of people, maybe 10 or 15 across the desert. We walked for hours and hours at night. I remember we were out in the middle of nowhere following a dim silver light in the distance. I'd imagine we follow it because it meant we're going the right way. Some shining city in the distance.

Jorge (07:30): We finally got to a raised road lined with street lamps. To avoid walking over the road that night, and potentially being seen, we crossed through a drainage tunnel under the road. Mom had me walk through the tunnel in front of her, and she crawled behind, my sister in her shawl.

Jorge (07:48): Bayba and I were wearing those little kids' light-up shoes that everyone was going crazy over that year. Mom had saved up a lot of money to buy them, because we were going to see our dad after a year of him being in the U.S. on his own, and she wanted us to look our best. The shoes were, actually, super helpful in that drainage tunnel, to light the way for mom and all the people crawling through on their hands and knees. But, of course, in the dead of night, they were a dead giveaway.

Jorge (08:18): When we were finally able to see the moonlight, at the end of the tunnel, and catch a whiff of fresh air. The coyotes urgently requested that my mom take off my shoes. "There's a border patrol car parked outside," he whispered. The drainage tunnel emptied, uh, we're right next to a gas station where the border patrol car was parked. The officers were inside, we assumed, so we waited for a while hoping they would return to their car and drive away.

Jorge (08:48): But no one was coming out. For some reason the coyotes grew impatient, and abruptly told everyone to move. In the chaos, everybody immediately scrambled, crawling behind tall grass on their hands and knees, as the coyotes gave us voiceless commands with their fingers and their lips, and pointing to the ground.

Jorge (09:07): But the ground was covered in cactus thorns, and prickles, and I didn't have any shoes. While everyone crawled, my mom stood up carrying both Bayba and me in her arms, and she just started walking. At first I thought she was giving up because we would surely be seen. Everyone else was still crawling on the ground. But she stood up tall, and walk with a defiant pep in her step, as if she belonged right there where she stood. That's when I realize she hadn't given up. She just had faith that walking quickly, and quietly, was her best strategy to protect us. She was resolved that somehow, somewhere we would be okay and that find a home where our family could thrive.

Jorge (09:59): I've never forgotten the look on my mom's face as she walked down the street and out into the dark of an unknown country. That is when I first learned that the real meaning of courage is not to pretend to be immune from fear, but, rather, to calmly and steadily take action in spite of it.

Jorge (10:19): Our current president might be a [inaudible 00:10:21], my little three year old self has had to assist other criminal, murderer, or rapist, gang member in the making. He might try to scare people who don't know undocumented immigrants into thinking that a mother carrying her children to safety is nothing less that an invasion.

Jorge (10:38): But Bayba and I grew up, beloved by our friends and neighbors. Strong members of our community. We both went to college. I even became the student body president of my university. I'm not part of some invading army fighting against America, but, like many of you, I'm fighting for the American ideals I think we can live up to.

Jorge (10:58): He may want to take away my baby sister's right to citizenship, but remain hopeful that maybe Denaiyu, or some other girl, might be our future president, and help lead us to a future where we live up to our ideals, to truly have liberty and justice for all.

Jorge (11:18): That is going to take a lot of hard work. And not just on my part, or just on the part of the immigrant community, but hard work on your part too. As Anne Frank once wrote in her famous diary, "How wonderful it is that nobody need wait a single moment before starting to improve the world."

Cristian (11:47): Thank you.

Jorge (11:48): [foreign language 00:11:48], very- very difficult.

Jorge (11:52): I- I felt it, uh, when your mom was crossing, no? It's, uh ... Has she heard it?

Cristian (11:59): Yeah. She ...

Jorge (12:00): She got it? How ...

Cristian (12:01): Yeah- yeah she got it.

Cristian (12:02): She speaks pretty good English. But, yeah, she made me, like, a big dinner that night and (laughs)-

Cristian (12:07): ... was so happy with me, and was telling all our friends about me. You know, I have to perform it in Spanish too.

Jorge (12:13): Yeah, because, uh, maybe I'm thinking if- if language is a barrier at some point, you know? I don't know if it's Hispanic. But for her, obviously, she'll ... As- as it happens with me, uh, Spanish is the language of the heart, you know? And- and when you get upset, and intimate, passionate, or fearful, that's when Spanish comes out. That's why I'm surprised that it touched me so much, because language is my adopted language, you know?

Jorge (12:41): I don't feel in English. Well I thought I didn't feel in English until I read what you wrote. That's the beauty of literature, that you can leave somebody else as experience, you know?

Jorge (12:52): And what surprised me is how I, somehow, just for a few seconds, I was you, you know?

Cristian (12:58): Thank you.

Jorge (12:59): No, thank you-

Jorge (13:00): ... thank you.

Kirsten (13:00): Jorge, would you tell Cristian what touched you the most when reading his story?

Jorge (13:04): What touched me the most was that determination that I felt in your mom. I can see her taking you and- and Bayba, and then walking. Maybe it's my TV background, but I was seeing her, you know, walking from behind, and not stopping regardless of the dangers on one side and the, uh, border patrol on the other. Just walking. What happened after that by the way?

Cristian (13:27): We made it. (laughs)

Jorge (13:29): Really? You made it, and you were not stopped?

Cristian (13:31): We were not stopped.

Jorge (13:32): Well than that ... Now, uh- uh, it's even more dramatic, because I thought that maybe you had been stopped by the border patrol, and because it was a family unit, that eventually you would have been released and gone somewhere else.

Jorge (13:44): So it was even more defiant what she did-

Jorge (13:48): ... you know? Can you imagine if she had stayed, if you have kept the shoes, if you had been detained.

Cristian (13:54): Oh I would be so much different.

Jorge (13:55): That's why that moment was so important. That changed everything. Your story, everybody's story, and at that point, you could've gone many different ways. And just one- one way, thanks to the way she walked. I wouldn't have been in front of her. (laughs)

Jorge (14:10): It would have been impossible to stop. And I was so ... Can you imagine that everything you owned, and that your family owned, she was carrying it.

Jorge (14:20): I remember when I first came as a student, that everything that I owned, my guitar, and some papers, and my clothes, you know, bag, that I could carry everything with me. That sense of freedom, I've never had it before. You ... Now it would be impossible for me to carry all the things that I own.

Jorge (14:35): But just imagine that your mom carried the whole house (laughs) with her on her backpack.

Cristian (14:41): Carrying both of us and, like, her whole life-

Cristian (14:44): ... you know, in her backpack.

Jorge (14:46): How brave she was.

Cristian (14:47): Yeah.

Jorge (14:48): Now, this is for you. There's a little weight on you, just look what she did.

Jorge (14:53): You have a- a real tough example to compare to. (laughs)

Cristian (14:58): That's why I- I push so hard. You know, I wanted to go med school.

Cristian (15:04): Um, and I think after the Trump administration, I was just, like, I can't, I can't do this right now. Like I need to ... I had a job at a medical campus-

Cristian (15:13): ... lined up as a research assistant, and it was, like, I can't go into that building and work on that, and then go home one day and not find my mom home.

Cristian (15:22): You know, like, I need to work on this issue.

Jorge (15:25): I've been reporting about immigration for more than 30 years. And I've talked to hundreds or thousands of immigrants in my life. But, it's very rare when I can go beyond that first encounter, and the first talk about their legal situation, in which I can get into their personal story. And this is just what happened, you know?

Jorge (15:46): I think that if people in this country would listen to stories like this, and really just take a couple of minutes to digest everything that you said, uh, it would be a different story. This is our country too, and they get so upset when I say our. But it is our country too, and- and it's full of stories like this. If these were to be, uh, a Hollywood movie, you would be the hero.

Jorge (16:11): But then, suddenly, you're being persecuted right now, no? And you- you don't know what's gonna happen to you. But at the end, I completely believe that this is our country, and that you and your sisters are heroes.

Kirsten (16:24): Jorge, before you read the story out loud, I asked Cristian to read his own story to you. Would you tell Cristian what most impacted you when he read it?

Jorge (16:34): Every family situation like this seems like a tragedy, and in a way, it is. But the importance of recognizing the fear, and then going beyond that. Because otherwise you would be paralyzed. You would be paralyzed in that tunnel right now for the rest of your life, and you decided to go beyond that, and go through it. That's what impressed me the most.

Kirsten (16:54): Would you tell Cristian how you relate to his experience. Is there something about his story that makes you reflect on your own life?

Jorge (17:02): I'm you, with a little piece of paper. That's the only difference. I have a little piece of paper that's my U.S. passport. That's the only difference. But I came when I was 24, 25 to this country as an immigrant, but with a difference that I came with a student visa, and that, eventually, became a work permit, and then eventually became, uh, a green card and a U., and a U.S. passport.

Jorge (17:26): I- I see no difference whatsoever between you and me. You crossed the border one way, and I flew. (laughs) That ... But that's- that's the only difference.

Kirsten (17:34): Is there anything you wondered about in Cristian's story that you wanted to make sure that you understood?

Jorge (17:41): Probably, like, the most difficult part for me is this dual role in which you are a son, but at the same time you gotta become your father. I- I don't know how you handled that. How do you handle those dual roles?

Cristian (17:54): I just have to be kind and patient in raising, like, a baby basically with my sister. Everybody always thought, though, she was our daughter- (laughs)

Cristian (18:04): ... by her teenage parents, but she was our- our sibling. And we had just, had to learn how to be patient, and how to be kind, and come from a place of goodness in our heart, even though handling a baby can be so frustrating.

Jorge (18:16): Yeah. Do you think you lost your childhood in a way? That you didn't have a childhood, or that you were not at, really a teenager because of that? That- that there's something missing there? Parties, and- and just being irresponsible, and not having to be back at a certain time, yeah.

Cristian (18:33): I think it wasn't until, like, college that I was able to really be child-like again, be carefree. I mean I still lived really close to home.

Cristian (18:41): I still h- helped out with a lot of things, but I got a lot more freedom than I did.

Cristian (18:46): I don't know, I- I don't regret any of it.

Cristian (18:48): I think I learned to be a better person, because I had to develop the sense of- of compassion for my little sister.

Jorge (18:55): Hm. How old is she now?

Cristian (18:56): Uh, 11. She just turned 11. And she's just ... Yeah, she's adorable. Like, so I don't regret any of it. I'd rather be, you know, taking care of my sister then at a high school party any day anyway.

Kirsten (19:07): I have one last question for Cristian. Would you tell Jorge Ramos what it was like for you to hear him read your story to you?

Cristian (19:15): I'd never heard anyone else read it before. So every time I read it I'm focused on the words, and trying-

Cristian (19:19): ... to express ...

Jorge (19:19): ... it's coming from inside.

Cristian (19:21): Yeah And, so, now, you know, it was just ... It made me see my mom in a different light. Like I wasn't even aware that it was in my writing. And it made me realize, like, I wasn't even scared as a kid walking in the middle of the desert with my mom. Like I never mentioned that I was scared at that point. And I think it speaks so ... How much, like a child trusts their parent, that they're willing to go out into the wilderness and not be scared, because they trust their parents so damn much.

Cristian (19:45): I always knew my mom was bad ass.

Cristian (19:48): It's, like, it- it brought it to a whole 'nother-

Jorge (19:49): Yeah.

Cristian (19:49): ... level. I have so much respect for you-

Jorge (19:52): Oh, thank you.

Cristian (19:53): ... you know, that you would choose to read my story and talk about my family. It means a lot to me.

Jorge (19:58): Well thank you, thank you Cristian. It was, yeah, the opposite. I, uh- uh, very seldom have the opportunity to try to understand what you're going through. It was great. Now use your voice, don't be afraid of that, no? Use your voice.

Kirsten (20:15): Yo-Yo Ma and Kathryn Stott selection in honor of Cristian's story.

[Nana from Manuel de Falla - by Yo-Yo Ma and Kathryn Scott]

Kirsten (21:40): The great Yo-Yo Ma and pianist Kathryn Stott playing Nana from Manuel de Falla, Seven Spanish Folk Songs in response to Cristian's story.

Kirsten (21:52): You can watch a video of Cristian reading his own story on our webpage, shoeboxstories.org, or hear him read it Jorge Ramos on our companion podcast, Motus Monologues: UndocuAmerica Series.

Kirsten (22:05): We hope you will share Cristian's story with your friends and family, so everyone knows the people whose lives are at stake in U.S. immigration policy.

Kirsten (22:15): Next month, on the Shoebox Stories UndocuAmerica Series, hear legendary feminist, activist, and writer, Gloria Steinem, read the story of Kiara Chavez.

Gloria Steinem (22:25): You know, there's nothing on earth more supportive than people sitting in a circle, telling their stories, (laughs) telling the story you think only you feel. Three other people say, "Oh you feel like that? I thought only I (laughs) felt like that."

Gloria Steinem (22:40): Then we discover that in some ways about power, or injustice, or something, and together we can change that.

Kirsten (22:48): Thank you to Jorge Ramos, Cristian Solano-Cordova, Yo-Yo Ma, Kathryn Stott, and all of you listening who are willing to stand in the shoes of someone with a different experience than your own, and see the world for a moment through their eyes. Please take good care of yourselves, those you hold dear, and your neighbors, both those near and far.

We are so grateful for the Shoebox Stories creative team, including Carlos Heredia, theme song, Alejendro Fuentes Mena, vocals, Robert Johnson, vocals, Anthony Salvo, violin underscore. And the podcast creative team, Artistic Director Kirsten Wilson, Editor Sam Glover, and Matthew Simonson. The Motus Theater production team, Rita Valente-Quinn, Michelle Maughn, and Kiara Chavez. And the entire UndocuMonologue group, Laura Pineche, Victor Galvan, Tania Chairez, Raydesel Salvidrez-Rodriguez, Kiara Chavez, Juan Juarez, Irving Reza, Cristian Solano-Cordova, Armando Peniche, and Alejandro Fuentes Mena. And a special thanks to Rae Solomon and Kevin Seaman, thank you.