Episode 5: The Most Beautiful Monument

John Lithgow reads the story of Irving Reza

Award-winning actor, author, musician and singer, John Lithgow, reads the story of Irving Reza, a DACAmented political science major who uses humor to negotiate the fear of passing through immigration checkpoints and his deepening reverence for the U.S. Constitution and the Bill of Rights.

---

Guests

John Lithgow

John Lithgow is an American actor, musician, poet, author, and singer. He is the recipient of numerous accolades, including six Primetime Emmy Awards, two Tony Awards, two Golden Globe Awards, three Screen Actors Guild Awards, four Drama Desk Awards, and has been nominated for two Academy Awards and four Grammy Awards. Lithgow serves on a commission to advance the cause of the humanities and social sciences, advocating for action by the government and is also an advocate for literacy and arts education for children.

Irving Reza

Irving Reza holds a Bachelor’s Degree in Political Science from the University of New Mexico. He has been living in the neighborhood of Montbello, Denver for the last 6 years. During his free time, Irving enjoys spending time with his family and 2 Chihuahuas. He also participates in political events for immigrant rights for various organizations. Irving currently works at the Sugar Moon Mushroom Farm.

DAN DRUFOVKA / LIVE NATION

Neil Young

Neil Young is a singer-songwriter, multi-instrumentalist and activist. Young has received several Grammy and Juno Awards. The Rock and Roll Hall of Fame inducted him twice: in 1995 as a solo artist and in 1997 as a member of Buffalo Springfield. In 2000, Rolling Stone named Young the 34th greatest rock 'n roll artist of all time. His guitar work, deeply personal lyrics and signature tenor singing voice define his long career.

---

Full Episode Transcript

[AD]

Kirsten Wilson, Host (00:08): For Motus Theater, welcome to the Shoebox Stories podcast, where we invite you to stand in someone else's shoes. I'm Motus' artistic director, Kirsten Wilson.

Kirsten Wilson (00:29): For our first podcast series, UndocuAmerica, Motus asks a prominent American’s to stand in the shoes of an undocumented person by reading aloud their story, saying their words and holding, for a moment, the weight that they carry. By reading the story handed to them in the studio, the reader is not saying they agree with everything written. They are simply agreeing to suspend judgment and feel the impact as they, word by word, experience the world through another's eyes.

Kirsten Wilson (01:09): Our guest reader is award-winning actor, author, musician, and singer John Lithgow. Best known for his television roles is Dick Solomon in the comedy Third Rock from the Sun, Arthur Mitchell in the drama Dexter and Winston Churchill in The Crown. For each of which, he won primetime Emmy awards.

John Lithgow (01:28): We're in a moment of crisis, a crisis of empathy in this country. It seems to me that the whole thrust of this project is to address that crisis.

Kirsten Wilson (01:39): He will be reading the story of Irving Reza, a political science major with DACA who uses humor to negotiate the fear he must face every time he passes through an immigration checkpoint and how this experience deepens his reverence for the US Constitution and the Bill of Rights. After the reading and reflection, we have a musical response in honor of Irving Reza's story from the Grammy-award-winning rock and roll legend, Neil Young.

And now, John Lithgow reading Irving Reza's story, The Most Beautiful Monument.

John Lithgow (02:16): On an annual basis I go to El Paso, Texas to see my grandmother. My problem is not that I must go to El Paso. It's when I return home to Colorado, I have to pass through an immigration checkpoint. The US has CBP checkpoints, usually within a hundred miles from the border. CBP stands for Customs and Border Protection. Everyone calls them the border patrol, but the agents don't like that. They're really sensitive people. The name border patrol hurts their feelings. Sometimes when you're stopped, they want to search your vehicle. It all depends on the agent and the time of day. If you have too much luggage, that might be suspicious as you could be trying to smuggle something. If you are carrying a reasonable amount of stuff, that might be suspicious since you could be trying to pass off as a normal traveler. If you're traveling without luggage, that too might be suspicious since you could be traveling in a hurry. Don't make me talk about passengers. That might be suspicious.

John Lithgow (03:40): One night, when I was heading to Denver after passing through Las Cruces, I stopped at the checkpoint and gave them my EAD, my DACA Employment Authorization Document. The officer asked me where I was going.

Me: "To Denver."

Officer: "Why are you going there?"

"I live there."

"How long were you in El Paso?"

I actually started to count the days. If I arrived on Friday night and today is Thursday night, does that count as a full day? The officer wasn't really interested in my answer. He just wanted a reason to search the trunk of my car. I felt that I had no choice. I said, "Yes." I pressed the button on my 2004 cavalier to open the trunk. It, being a junker with 200,000 miles, the trunk door opens but it doesn't pop up. It has to be lifted up every time. Opening it with a key is quite the puzzle. Really old car. John Lithgow (04:47): The officer asked again, "Please open the trunk." "It is open. You just have to lift." I imagined the officer thinking, "Oh, this is too much trouble." "Sir, get out of the car. We're going to use the search dogs." I got out and waited there in the open. It was pitch black, except the areas surrounded by the flood lights. It was also dead silent. I could see where the light ended and where the void began. Although I couldn't see anything in the dark, I knew there were hidden shrubs and critters and immigration.

John Lithgow (05:32): I waited under the watchful eye and close surveillance of five officers, as if I was capable of beating them up and making a dramatic escape. I waited in a resting stance, slightly bent knees, hands on my waist, relaxed elbows, steady breathing, and looking at them without looking at them. Otherwise, I could learn how many immigration officers it takes to screw a Mexican.

The officer with the search dog asked me out loud, "Does the passenger door open?"

"Yes. You just have to unlock it from the inside."

Cavalier 2004. Manual lock, rolling windows, busted dashboard, $1,500. The officer told me that I could get going. He then asked, "Your trunk closes, right?"

"Yeah."

After that experience, I always wonder as I approach a checkpoint if they're going to search my car. Sometimes they just take my ID and that's it. Other times they don't even stop anyone and I keep on going.

John Lithgow (06:50): Officer One: "Are we going to stop anyone today, dude?"

Officer Two: "Eh, I just really don't feel like it."

Last year after going to El Paso, I decided to visit White Sands National Monument. I made a right turn in Las Cruces and drove until I reached the checkpoint. I always have my ID ready and I gave it to the officer.

Officer: "Where are you coming from?"

Me: "From El Paso."

"Where are you going?"

"To the monument."

"Why are you going there?"

"To see the monument."

"Can I search your car?"

John Lithgow (07:36): When she asked to search my car, I remembered a conversation that I had with Victor Galvan, who leads immigrant rights trainings. I told him about my previous experience. He asked me why I let them search my car. "I don't know." He told me to exercise my rights the next time I pass through a checkpoint. So in response to the officer's question, I said, "No." The officer took a step back and went to talk to her supervisor. I usually don't look at them if I'm not talking to them since I don't want to look mean at them. The officer came back and asked me if they could search my trunk.

"Is it truly necessary?"

"Just answer the question, sir?"

"No."

John Lithgow (08:31): The officer went back to talk with her supervisor. I assume they did not really expect that kind of response. I imagined their conversation.

Officer: "He said no to searching the car. What do I do now? It's not supposed to be this way."

Supervisor: "Okay. What if you ask him again and see if he flinches this time?"

"Sir, I asked him again and he said no again."

"Well, I... um... we can impound his car and search it later. A cavalier? We have standards here. Let him go."

I was permitted to move on and in a few miles, I reached the monument. Once I got to the monument, I went to their checkpoint. The attendant said, "Welcome to White Sands National Monument. Would you like a day pass or a season pass?"

"I'll take the day pass."

"Thank you. Here's a map and your car sticker. Enjoy your stay."

John Lithgow (09:36): When I'm at a CBP checkpoint, I always figure that they will stop me, search me and shake me up a bit. I've not heard of any DACA recipient being arrested or beaten at a checkpoint, which doesn't mean that it hasn't happened and that I won't be the one it happens to. But if the agents think either I or my car looks suspicious, that could be it for me, whether I'm guilty or not. Even spending a single day in detention could mean losing my DACA status, and that would be a disaster.

John Lithgow (10:17): But that day near Las Cruces, 50 miles from the Mexican border, I was stopped at a checkpoint and I exercised my rights; and my rights, as written in the Constitution, were respected. For many Americans, the Constitution is something they might take for granted. But that day, when my rights were respected and the Bill of Rights was honored, I experienced the most beautiful national monument America has ever created.

John Lithgow (11:07): That's for you, Irving.

Irving Reza (11:08): Thank you.

Kirsten Wilson (11:11): Wow. Beautiful, John. What was it like to read Irving's story directly to him?

John Lithgow (11:19): I just loved it. It's just such a wonderful, honest piece of writing. What I love about it is it's so humorous. Whenever something that's that intense is recalled after the fact, a long time after the fact, by which time you've come to internalize it, accept it, adapt to it as a part of your history, it becomes very ordinary and prosaic. The difference between the intensity of what happened and how straightforward and simple it is in the retelling is, to me, what makes it so moving and that's how it struck me reading it.

Kirsten Wilson (12:05): John, what moment in Irving's story most impacted you while reading it?

John Lithgow (12:12): There's a sentence, "I was permitted to move on." To me, those five or six words are overwhelming because you just feel the relief and everyone can connect with that. Everyone knows what it's like to realize, "I'm going to be okay." I just thought it was incredibly beautiful. And the timing of it. I don't know whether you consider yourself a writer or not, but that's just great writing.

Irving Reza (12:45): Thank you. Sometimes I wonder if maybe I chose the wrong career.

John Lithgow (12:48): Yes. Exactly. Well, you have to promise me that you'll keep writing.

Irving Reza (12:52): Yes.

John Lithgow (12:52): Because this is just beautiful. I say that as an actor who knows good material when he sees it. When Kirsten asked me to do this and told me about you, told me the story and sent me the video of you, I hesitated. I thought nobody should tell Irving's story except Irving, but I wanted to help out Kirsten and the Motus Theater project because it seems to me very, very important. I also thought, "Well, maybe this is just exactly what I should do." Because the whole challenge here is to get people to walk in the shoes of immigrants and get some connection with what they have to go through. So, actually, maybe it's a very theatrical and powerful thing to do. Maybe Kirsten had a brilliant idea here.

John Lithgow (13:52): The more different I am from you, the more it highlights the intensity of your experience. We have all had the experience of worrying about being in trouble but I have never had to live through the experience of going through one of those checkpoints. You talk about it with such humor and irony as if it was an amusing thing that happened to you, but it's so clear there was nothing amusing about it when it was happening. In its way, it helped me experience what you experienced and that's exactly what all of us have to do and concentrate on. We're in a moment of crisis, a crisis of empathy in this country. It seems to me that the whole thrust of this project is to address that crisis. But I think it's a wonderful thing to partner, you and me, and to make my reading of your story a companion piece to yours. It's my way of walking in your shoes.

Irving Reza (14:55): Thank you.

Kirsten Wilson (14:56): Irving, what was it like to have John Lithgow read you your own story?

Irving Reza (15:01): It was as intense as the heat was when I went to the National Monument. I could just feel all the energy and radiation just like if I was there again.

John Lithgow (15:15): Well, I choose to take that as a compliment.

Kirsten Wilson (15:18): Before we end, I'm going to ask you both to take a few breaths and just see if there are any last words you would want to say.

Irving Reza (15:26): Yeah, I got something. Once again, this year I went to El Paso. I have heard from people that the checkpoints were closed and I went there to see it myself and they were closed. And then I went again later and they were still closed. So was that all for nothing? If it's so important that they have to stop everybody to see if they’re dangerous or not and then they just close it for most of the year, why are we doing this?

John Lithgow (15:53): Wow. Well, I didn't know what to expect coming here this morning. It was a wonderful experience to sit here five feet from you and read it out loud to you as a way of telling you how much it means to me. I mean, I've been following the crisis at the border for the last two or three years, as it's become more and more of a hot button issue in our country and in our society and in our politics. But in all this time, I haven't had the chance to speak to anyone who is affected by it at all. I've been so alarmed by what's going on, but this is the most connected I've felt to what's going on and I'm very grateful for that. I admire your courage.

Irving Reza (16:42): Thank you.

John Lithgow (16:42): It's wonderful to act in something where you really feel you're helping to change people's minds or widen their consciousness and change the world. Even if it's in a little tiny way.

(Neil Young: Rainbow of Colors)

Kirsten Wilson (20:20): That was rock and roll legend Neil Young playing his song Rainbow of Colors in honor of Irving's story. You can watch a video of Irving reading his own story on our web page, shoeboxstories.org, or hear him read it to John Lithgow in our companion podcast, Motus Monologues: UndocuAmerica series. We hope you will share Irving's story with your friends and family so everyone knows the people whose lives are at stake in US immigration policy.

Next month on the Shoebox Stories: UndocuAmerica series, hear the lead anchor and executive producer of Latino USA, Maria Hinojosa, read the story of Tania Chairez.

Speaker 5 (21:03): We're all saying, "Y'all have been sleeping while we've become dehumanized."

Kirsten Wilson (21:08): Thank you to John Lithgow, Irving Reza, Neil Young, and all of you listening who are willing to stand in the shoes of someone with a different experience than your own and see the world for a moment through their eyes. Please take good care of yourselves, those you hold dear and your neighbors, both those near and far.

We are grateful for the Shoebox Stories creative team, including Carlos Heredia, theme song; Anthony Salvo, violin underscore; Alejandro Fuentes Mena, vocals; Robert Johnson, vocals; the podcast content editor, Motus artistic director Kirsten Wilson; technical editors, Sam Glover and Douglas Reed; the Motus Theater production team, Rita Valente-Quinn, Michelle Maughan and Kiara Chavez; and Motus UndocuMonologists Victor Galvon, Tania Chairez, Reydesel Salvidrez-Rodriguez, Laura Peniche, Kiara Chavez, Juan Juarez, Irving Reza, Cristian Solano-Cordova, Armando Pineche and Alejandro Fuentes-Mena.